Recently (actually since I posted an article introducing MediaCoder’s new CUDA support on the doom9 forum), a group of people, mainly those developing software similar to MediaCoder, began to pick holes in MediaCoder. Some of the same people, requested that the FFmepg group put MediaCoder on the FFmpeg shame list, accusing MediaCoder of abusing and modifying FFmpeg without publishing the patch. They also insinuated that MediaCoder contains virus and malwares, as well as tampering with the MediaCoder description on Wikipedia and changing the description as adware. I am very angry and shame on them. I hereby make the following statements:
Recently (actually since I posted an article introducing MediaCoder’s new CUDA support on the doom9 forum), a group of people, mainly those developing software similar to MediaCoder, began to pick holes in MediaCoder. Some of the same people, requested that the FFmepg group put MediaCoder on the FFmpeg shame list, accusing MediaCoder of abusing and modifying FFmpeg without publishing the patch. They also insinuated that MediaCoder contains virus and malwares, as well as tampering with the MediaCoder description on Wikipedia and changing the description as adware. I am very angry and shame on them. I hereby make the following statements:
- MediaCoder DOES NOT link against any GPL-ed libraries. It only invokes GPL-ed programs and use their outputs. MediaCoder does not violate GPL license.
- MediaCoder uses an unmodified build of FFmpeg (builds are obtained from here and here) and only invokes FFmpeg as a separate process instead of using its code directly. This does not conflict with FFmpeg’s license.
- MediaCoder uses patched builds of MPlayer and MEncoder. The patch (available here) adds pipe input/output support as well as a few additional features and command line options. It only invokes MPlayer or MEncoder as a separate process instead of using its code directly. This does not conflict with MPlayer’s license.
- I respect all the FFmpeg and MPlayer developers and respect the work they’ve done on the both projects. MediaCoder is standing on the shoulder of giants. I have also submitted patches in the MPlayer dev mail-list and would like to contribute to the projects whenever possible. MediaCoder itself does not contain any source code from any (L)GPLed software.
- MediaCoder (distributions from the offical download locations) does NOT contain any virus and malwares. The MediaCoder installer bundles OpenCandy, a software recommendation network. Users can choose whether to accept the recommendation during installation.
- MediaCoder is NOT an adware. There is no ads banner on the application GUI (not including the contents served on the web site). MediaCoder does NOT collect any personal information. It is a pure freeware. As for bundled OpenCandy in the installer, please refer to their privacy policy.
- The latest versions of MediaCoder do not contain encoder binaries those people are arguing about, including CT AAC+ encoder and Nero AAC encoder, though these encoders are supported and the binaries can be downloaded separately from its owner’s website. CT AAC+ encoder was removed from distribution since about 3 years ago. Nero AAC encoder was bundled until previous 0.7.0. I have already realized improper and removed it recently.
- Since version 0.7, MediaCoder is distributed under MediaCoder End User License Agreement and is no longer open-sourced. It is still and will be always totally free of charge.
- MediaCoder is now identified as a product of Broad Intelligence Technologies, which is a software company I started to run since early 2009. MediaCoder is not a commercial software though we are building some commercial solutions (like distributed transcoding cluster) around MediaCoder. While pursuing some deserved commercial interests by providing solutions and services, we make most of our efforts and breakthroughs (like recent new GPU/CUDA support) go into the free MediaCoder software and we will do our best to provide the community with the best free media transcoder.
- MediaCoder DOES NOT link against any GPL-ed libraries. It only invokes GPL-ed programs and use their outputs. MediaCoder does not violate GPL license.
- MediaCoder uses an unmodified build of FFmpeg (builds are obtained from here and here) and only invokes FFmpeg as a separate process instead of using its code directly. This does not conflict with FFmpeg’s license.
- MediaCoder uses patched builds of MPlayer and MEncoder. The patch (available here) adds pipe input/output support as well as a few additional features and command line options. It only invokes MPlayer or MEncoder as a separate process instead of using its code directly. This does not conflict with MPlayer’s license.
- I respect all the FFmpeg and MPlayer developers and respect the work they’ve done on the both projects. MediaCoder is standing on the shoulder of giants. I have also submitted patches in the MPlayer dev mail-list and would like to contribute to the projects whenever possible. MediaCoder itself does not contain any source code from any (L)GPLed software.
- MediaCoder (distributions from the offical download locations) does NOT contain any virus and malwares. The MediaCoder installer bundles OpenCandy, a software recommendation network. Users can choose whether to accept the recommendation during installation.
- MediaCoder is NOT an adware. There is no ads banner on the application GUI (not including the contents served on the web site). MediaCoder does NOT collect any personal information. It is a pure freeware. As for bundled OpenCandy in the installer, please refer to their privacy policy.
- The latest versions of MediaCoder do not contain encoder binaries those people are arguing about, including CT AAC+ encoder and Nero AAC encoder, though these encoders are supported and the binaries can be downloaded separately from its owner’s website. CT AAC+ encoder was removed from distribution since about 3 years ago. Nero AAC encoder was bundled until previous 0.7.0. I have already realized improper and removed it recently.
- Since version 0.7, MediaCoder is distributed under MediaCoder End User License Agreement and is no longer open-sourced. It is still and will be always totally free of charge.
- MediaCoder is now identified as a product of Broad Intelligence Technologies, which is a software company I started to run since early 2009. MediaCoder is not a commercial software though we are building some commercial solutions (like distributed transcoding cluster) around MediaCoder. While pursuing some deserved commercial interests by providing solutions and services, we make most of our efforts and breakthroughs (like recent new GPU/CUDA support) go into the free MediaCoder software and we will do our best to provide the community with the best free media transcoder.
Thanks a lot for Mediacoder…
Are they jalous of your work ? 😉
Hope everybody will explain each other and walk hand in hand…
Yep.. followed the discussion on ffmpeg.org.. those guys are just lame not helping you in any way 🙁
Mediacoder’s great ! Keep up that excellent work !
Thanks for the precious understanding!
Stanley, after reading the postings/comments over at the FFMPEG shame list, I can see your frustration. It was clear that you were trying to be calm and sort things out. You were and still are trying to appease everybody.
However one of the people who responded to your questions was just plain rude. Rather than work with you, either privately or in the comment section, they berated you and MediaCoder. They made it a personal attack.
There is no excuse for that sort of “bull dog” attitude. Someone with that style shouldn’t be allowed to comment….regardless of the issues. They are either suffering from an inferiority complex or feel that they always have to get in a person’s face to make a point.
Poor form on their part.
Stanley, now regarding MediaCoder, it’s clear (over and over again), that the more information that you supply people and users with, the less they will speculate and worry.
Case in point: Open Candy or Relevant Knowledge. Had you been up front at the beginning about the use of these marketing tools, how they work and their function, then users could have either accepted it or not.
I realize that for you, that tracking all this stuff and writing/talking/blogging about it takes a lot of time…..time that you could spend developing MediaCoder software. But it’s still all about proper communication with your users, which happen to be your biggest asset.
There are many examples of how great software programs with a lot of potential failed in this way. The power of the internet (good or bad) is just too great. As you know, advertising and comments by “word of mouth” can be either great or real bad.
Once you get things sorted out, my recommendation is to continue to communicate with your users. Let them know what your plans are, and perhaps your goals. If they feel that they are (in some small way) part of the process, they will become a very powerful voices.
The very sad thing is that the person doing personal attack on me is the project maintainer of MPlayer.
Stanley,
I’ve never used MediaCoder or ffmpeg but I’ve looked at the discussions on this licensing issue. Although I think the bloke on the ffmpeg forum overreacted, he is right when he says that your software doesn’t respect their license.
It looks like MediaCoder is using its own license. It’s fine for the part that you wrote but this license cannot be applied to the GPL and LGPL’ed software you dstribute as part of the installation package. Hence, you need to state in your license agreement which part of the software are covered by your license and which softwares are (L)GPL. You will need to include the (L)GPL license text and also give proper credit to the authors of each software you’re using.
The second issue is that you don’t seem to offer a way to access the source code of the (L)GPL software. Please read section 3 of the GPL v2 license and section 4 of LGPL. For GPL for instance, it states that if you distribute a GPL binary you need to either distribute the source code with it OR make the source code available for 3 years on a physical support at anyone’s demand and for no charge greater than the cost of this physical support.
This means that you will need to store the source code of each version of the different binaries you’re using for 3 years.
As long as you don’t comply with these different points you can’t say that your software doesn’t conflict with ffmpeg’s license. It DOES clearly violate it.
You should definitely read the (L)GPL licenses carefully and clarify your license terms about the use of external software with different licenses.
Robrob,
About the second issue you mentioned, you must clearly know that, MediaCoder itself doesn’t contain any code from any GPL software. Every line of its source code is written by myself. What I do is invoke (create process) various GPLed or non-GPLed programs to accomplish some jobs and sometimes pipes data into them. A program invoking a GPLed program is not necessarily to be GPLed. You might have read GPL license more carefully than I do (actually I think the text of GPL is really hard to understand) but you don’t know about the mechansim of MediaCoder.
Stanley,
I understand the mechanism but it’s totally irrelevant to the licensing issue.
Please read section 3 of the GPLv2 license. If you distribute GPL software in binary form, you are required to give access to its source code.
The way you invoke the binary has nothing to do with the license compliance.
Since you distribute binary GPL software as part of your installation package you have to give access to the source code even if you used a precompiled version.
Also what will you do for the first issue?
You mean the code of the GPL software used right? I will add the link to get source code of the GPL software used in EULA.
As for the 1st issue, if you are downloading the package I released yesterday, you will see an updated EULA of this.
Stanley,
I can’t tell if it is enough as I just pointed out the 2 most obvious issues to me, but I’m glad to see you are ready to discuss and are not stubborn like the guys at ffmpeg were suggesting.
I also think you should add links in your EULA to the different licenses or an easy way to see their text.
Anyway these additions look good to me, so I will leave it to that and hope you will be able to sort out all the issues with ffmpeg 🙂
I’ve included text files of GPL, LGPL, MPL and RPSL in mediacoder distribution.
lgpl, gpl blabla.. it’s bullshit!
mediacoder is great tool and i don’t care whatf other says.
stanley u did a great job!
Stanley,
I can see that this issue is still not solved on ffmpeg’s website. To be honest I don’t find it surprising as you don’t seem to want to comply to the license terms even when the details are given to you.
I’ve explained above that for all GPL binaries that you distribute as part of MediaCoder, you need to give access to their source code (and not just a link):
“Please read section 3 of the GPLv2 license. If you distribute GPL software in binary form, you are required to give access to its source code.”
Section 3 is very clear and easy to understand.
I’m really trying to help you here as I don’t use ffmpeg or MediaCoder and the only reason I wrote here is because I thought the guy on ffmpeg’s forum was being rude. But now I understand him a bit more. You don’t seem to care about their license and don’t really try to comply with it.
When I see what you posted on their forum AFTER I explained what you needed to do (“If you mean the source code thing, The source code of the previous open-sourced
version of MediaCoder is still available on SourceForge.”) it just makes me angry that I wasted time trying to help someone who just doesn’t want to listen. You’re just pretending not to understand by posting irrelevant messages about MediaCoder’s code, when, from the beginning, it’s clear that it’s all about the code of the GPL programs you distribute.
Anyway, good luck with your project but I think you will end up in a lot of “Halls of Shame” with this attitude.
when i downloaded and started to use MediaCoder it was the first time i realized that i was using a program that a match for professionals (i’m not saying that i’m a professional) and made by a professional too. even understanding maybe ten percent of it took my days:) and now i’m using it with a great adoration.just what i’m saying is MediaCoder is a masterpiece and it can’t be taken down.thanks a lot to producer…
These people are haters. I have used mediacoder for years. It is the best media converting program hands down. I have tried many, free and commercial. It always has new features that were innovative. It is so advanced yet easy to understand and fast. These people just wanna bring you down commercial or freeware they mostly can’t compete with your work. Keep up the good work…
Stanley,
What the FFMPEG guys mean is this:
A) If you distribute a file “MediaCoderPlus-0.0.1.exe” on 01/01/2010, and it contains “FFMPEG 0.1.0 Binary”.
Then you:
a) MUST provide a download link for “FFMPEG 0.1.0 Source.zip” somewhere it’s easy to find. This link MUST stay valid until 01/01/2013.
b) If I send you an e-mail like this: “Hey, Stanley! Can you send me a CD-R with FFMPEG 0.1.0 Source.zip?” before 01/01/2013, you MUST answer to me: “Sure! It’ll cost $10!”, and send it to me if I agree to pay.
B) If later you distribute a file “MediaCoderPlus-0.0.2.exe” on 01/01/2011, and it contains “FFMPEG 0.2.0 Binary”.
Then, IN ADDITION to ‘a’ and ‘b’ above, you:
c) MUST provide a download link for “FFMPEG 0.2.0 Source.zip” somewhere it’s easy to find. This link MUST stay valid until 01/01/2014.
d) If I send you an e-mail like this: “Hey, Stanley! Can you send me a CD-R with FFMPEG 0.2.0 Source.zip?” before 01/01/2014, you MUST answer to me: “Sure! It’ll cost $10!”, and send it if I agree to pay.
And so on and so forth.
Those links and CD-Rs are your duty. It’s the “price” you pay for using FFMPEG. You don’t pay money for FFMPEG. You pay by offering old FFMPEG zip files to any user who wants them.
Keep up the good work! Don’t let anyone bring you down!!
MediaCoder is superb, by far the best I have ever used, and I don’t even started talking about the great support and updates!! =D
Speaking of which, I’m from Brazil, and you surely have a big user base here too!
I have been using mediacoder for 3+ years with never a problem.
Thank you for providing a superior product!!
Daking, Mediacoder could not exist without the work of these people. These people are not haters. They are far more altruistic than “Stanley”. They let you use their hard work, and all they ask is that you distribute your own sources if you distribute their work.
Specifically, their license states:
“Therefore, by modifying or DISTRIBUTING the Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so”
Which means that Stanley has to release the source code of the entire Mediacoder as long as it includes any GPL program (either source or binary).
Unfortunately, that behavior is common in FOSS communities (sometimes, they’re even total asshats amongst themselves). You were sent to the Hall of Shame without waiting for your understanding of the matter and nearly insulted while you stayed nice to everyone.
Follow advices by robrob (btw, I wish people would stop acting like if the GPL was unequivocal and easy to understand) and Alexander and you’ll leave the Hall of Shame.
That said, I’ll probably revert to pre-0.7 versions and wait for a fork. If MediaCoder isn’t forked, I’ll stick with with pre-0.7 or switch to another software, even if this means missing a few features. This has nothing to do with software quality or your behavior: I started using MediaCoder because it was Free Software (note the difference with Open Source) and would rather have it stay that way. It’s the same reason why I use Firefox over Chrome.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
no coment
i like this programm
Can’t register on the forum (have trouble reading the captcha, attempted a bunch of times), so try to bugreport here.
Seems 0.7.1.4486 doesn’t produce an index (you know, so that players can jump/forward etc). Tried several input files using settings: xvid bitrate-based 1000Kbps, lame 128, container avi; other settings at their defaults – to no avail.
On my end there is no such problem. Please check your media player.
You could simply stop distributing the GPL software. Write a program that will download the GPL’d software versions Mediacoder requires from their associated distribution sites. It could place the files that these other sites distribute in whatever place they are required.
You could say goodbye to the issue entirely.
vmahn, thanks for your suggestion. In future releases, I might make installer to download some components during installation instead of bundling them.
Please, if you use other software in your product you must fullfill with it’s licenses
FFmpeg will no longer be bundled. Instead, it will be downloaded from SourceForge.net during installation.
Where is the 7z download of this package? I do not like installation wrappers.
The “media transcoding platfoum” uses xulapp/xulrunner to display ads.
how is this not adware?
The transcoding platform is an extension to MediaCoder and is not essential. If you don’t like it, just ignore it!
From http://www.gnu.org :
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesUsingTheGPLForAProgramMakeItGNUSoftware
What is the difference between an “aggregate” and other kinds of “modified versions”?
…
By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger program.
How is “complex” defined? All data passing through pipes are yuv frames and the data flow is only one direction without any kind of interaction.
thank for de coder, I will try it for the
first time
Mediacoder is a valuable software. Thanks Stanly. I am truely grateful to you. I don’t care about source code as long as it’s free.
Keep doing good work. Hope your opposer will understand value of your work and co-operate with you. I am sure all Free software folks want good for society.
Thanks for the lines.
Will you be complying with the issues regarding the FFmpeg GPL at a later date or will you just disregard it?
I really like mediacoder as I do all my transcoding with it. But I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable using a program that does not comply with a licence for a component said program is using.
MediaCoder no longer bundles with FFmpeg. Instead, it is dynamically downloaded from 3rd-party web site (SourceForge.net) by the installer. So you can still use it with MediaCoder and there is no more excuse left.
That’s a shame, my transcoding computer is not connected to the internet. I guess I’ll have to find another application. I loved the program and I’m sad that I can’t use it anymore.
You can still download ffmpeg and x264 binaries from their official sites and put them in the codecs directory manually. At some point that didn’t work for mplayer/mencoder , are they now identical builds so that it’d work ?
Until then, one can keep on downloading the update packages and unpack the other needed files from there.
Same for the official full packages if you know what directory goes where (compare to older install), use existing firefox if necessary.
Sorry, but MediaCoder DOES ship a virus: MPUI.exe is infected by Win32.Indic that has been discovered a few days ago.
virustotal results:
http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/906877055bec99de6076759d6ed109c46f9e71bef244e55cbbc647a4075d643e-1250714000
Please, find a clean version of MPUI and release an update for MediaCoder.
MPUI is already removed in latest releases (0.7.1.4492 and later).
Where in hell is this watermark coming from? I just downloaded ver 0.7.1 build 4493 to convert an avi to svcd/mpg…
See this link for the screengrab:
http://i26.tinypic.com/sy877b.jpg
During the installation (Windows/Vista) I did select all checkboxes and the installer downloaded a lot of packages. could it be one of those? If yes, then how to avoid this sort of thing in the future?
Thanks! Please help.
No such watermark is applied within MediaCoder and this has never been reported by anyone else.
I think the problem is linking to the source on separate sites rather than providing it yourself.
I don’t think linking to sourceforge is adequate under section 3 of the GPL. I’d suggest putting the patched source into some form of archive file (tarball or zip) and offering it from your own website.
I’m only guessing this is what the ffmpeg people are concerned about, but if you were to do this AFAIK, you’d be satisfying the GPL in both intent and letter.
I will not trust software that distributes viruses. My computer was infected with the Win32.Induc virus from your software. The infected files can still be downloaded at http://www.mcex.org/dl/. MediaCoderAE-0.7.1.4490.exe and MediaCoderAE-x64-0.7.1.4490.exe are certainly infected and maybe more. I also believe that you are lying and actually violating the FFmpeg license. I’ve seen the watermark (http://i26.tinypic.com/sy877b.jpg) in some converted files. Your software also contained adware before you made it even worse by distributing a virus!
MEDIACODER IS MALICIOUS AND SHOULD BE AVOIDED!
The virus is caused by a 3rd party media player software included in MediaCoder, called MPUI. It is already excluded from MediaCoder since build 4495. You can avoid mediacoder, but please don’t spread the wrong word. Please read this post for more information. In addition, don’t talk about GPL violation if you don’t understand the whole issue.
If you don’t mind, I’d like to offer my advice on what should be done to address the GPL issues. First of all, you should create a “Source Code” section of the MediaCoder website, and make sure it is clearly linked to from the MediaCoder homepage. For each GPL/LGPL software item, provide a statement saying which license is used.
If you took the binaries from another site, provide a link to that site and, if possible, include a copy of the source that was used to build it.
If you built a binary yourself, include a copy of the original source and specify where the source came from. If you made any changes, include the original unpatched source as well as diff patches for the changes you made.
Also, ensure that you include a link back to the official page of the project, in order to give them credit.
Finally, in your EULA you should provide the URL of your “Source Code” page. If you do all this, I see way anyone can accuse you of violating the GPL.
Shit, what a pain is the ass.
Hello, I’m a user of your great software MediaCoder. I’ve used version 6.1.x, and decided to get a new one. I’m very disappointed, that this tool (that i’ve advised to everybody all around!) became a proprietary software. It’s almost perfect tool anyway.
If my humble opinion as a user of you tool is impotent for you, then consider the variant to make an open source brunch of your software. You may use double licensing or something else.
PS. I don’t think you violate GPL or any OS license in your project, I’m sure.
Good luck anyway.